A Q&A with Frank Yiannas

Article By Jason Brill Published November 19, 2024
Article Source: A Q&A with Frank Yiannas - Quality Assurance & Food Safety

The former FDA deputy commissioner for food policy and response talks about life after the agency, the lessons he’s learned throughout his career and the tough food safety conversations that should be happening.

Frank Yiannas, the former FDA deputy commissioner for food policy and response, left the agency about two years ago, but that hasn’t stopped him from trying to improve food safety.

Few things in life are constant. Food safety and quality assurance professionals will always be working to keep food safe, duking it out with pathogens, cross-contamination and food and beverage company executives who might only see the bottom line.

But career paths, tools of the trade and sometimes even regulations can seem like they shift with the wind. (OK. Regulatory shifts are significantly less sudden than that, but they don’t feel that way when compliance deadlines are fast approaching.)

For Frank Yiannas, the former Food and Drug Administration (FDA) deputy commissioner for food policy and response, leaving the agency almost two years ago has resulted in one of these shifts. Yiannas, who previously served as vice president of food safety at Walmart and director of health and safety for the Walt Disney Co., has literally (and maybe figuratively) let his hair down.

“Not to be too philosophical — but I think philosophy is in my DNA a little bit because of my Greek heritage — I do think there are chapters and seasons of life. I’m in a chapter of life where I’m feeling more relaxed,” Yiannas said of his longer hair and occasional goatee. “I still work on issues that are really important to consumers and companies, but right now it’s a reflection of the season I’m in and how I’m approaching life in general.”

While Yiannas is more relaxed than his whirlwind four-plus years at FDA, which included managing the agency’s food-related COVID-19 pandemic responses, he hasn’t slowed down. Soon after leaving FDA, he launched Smarter FY Solutions, a food safety consulting firm. In October of this year, he joined Boar’s Head’s food safety advisory council as chief food safety advisor to find out how the company’s Listeria monocytogenes outbreak happened — and how to make sure it never happens again. In 2023, he joined a similar advisory group at Chipotle.

Yiannas also has been traveling the world speaking at events such as Food Safety Consortium, North American Food Safety and Quality’s NAFS24 and food safety culture workshops in New Zealand, Sweden, Norway and more. He’s also been sharing his thoughts on food safety, regulation and more with his 22,000 LinkedIn followers.

We caught up with Yiannas to talk about his career since leaving FDA, his hopes for the future of food safety and more.

Since leaving FDA, Yiannas has been traveling the world leading workshops and presentations.

Courtesy of Frank Yiannas

Quality Assurance & Food Safety: You left FDA in February 2023 after a little more than four years with the agency. What have you learned in those nearly two years?

Frank Yiannas: I’m a student, and every year I know a little bit more than I knew the year before. As a food safety professional, you never quite fully arrive — you have to stay open to new ideas and new approaches. When I was at FDA, I would talk about the need for a new era of smarter food safety. I would go on public stages and say, ‘We’re going to see more changes in food in the next 10 years than we have in the past 30.’ Over the last two years, I’ve traveled to many continents and visited many food producers — that statement couldn’t be truer. We’re seeing so many changes in terms of new approaches, new ways to automate food production because of labor challenges. We’re seeing, finally, digitalization really happening in the food system.

The thing that has crystallized the most in my mind is that this new era of smarter food safety and these changes in the food system are upon us and are increasing at an accelerated rate. I see that every day up close and personal. Food safety and the food system might look easy when you’re sitting in a corner office in Washington, D.C., but you really have to get out there in the real world and see what’s happening to get a feel for the changes that are occurring almost in real time.

QA: Over a 35-year career, you spent 20 years at Disney, 10 years at Walmart and four years at FDA. How has your view of the food system changed and evolved over that time and through those stops?

FY: I had the privilege and honor to work with some amazing leaders and great teams at scale in each of those organizations, and that’s allowed me to obtain a balcony-level view of the food system, also having seen it from both sides — public and private. That allows me to see things a little bit differently than if I had been working in one manufacturing plant for 35 years.

Sing Us a Song

If you’re at all involved in food safety and spend any time on LinkedIn, you most likely saw Frank Yiannas, the former Food and Drug Administration deputy commissioner for food policy and response, singing a song about food safety culture at North American Food Safety and Quality’s NAFS24 event this fall.

The song was created by Dewey Longuski, an academic specialist at Michigan State University, and Yiannas has been using it in recent presentations.

“I put it on LinkedIn, and everyone loved it,” Yiannas said. “Food safety is a very serious subject, but if we’re talking about culture and influencing people, it’s a creative way to do that.”

Cindy Jiang, former senior director of global food safety risk management at McDonald’s, saw it, and while she was introducing him at the event, asked him to sing it in front of a couple hundred food safety professionals.

“It was spontaneous and unscripted,” he said, “but I decided to give it a whirl.” While it was a fun, disarming moment, there’s some science behind the song. When Yiannas was writing his second book, “Food Safety Equals Behavior,” he came across research that showed people retain information when it’s presented in a rhyme.

That Yiannas was able to carry a tune shouldn’t be a surprise. Inspired by Van Halen guitar virtuoso Eddie Van Halen, Yiannas picked up the instrument (and drums, to his parents’ dismay) as a kid.

“Then life got busy, I went to college, and I went to work,” he said. “But this year I purchased a new guitar after 30 years, so I’ve been playing a little when I have time and hope to do more.”

QA: Since leaving FDA, you’ve been more outspoken on social media about the food system, such as commenting on states banning ingredients or emphasizing caution as FDA announced its reorganization plans. How has that balcony-level view influenced your way of thinking on those issues, and why have you felt now is the time to share your thoughts?

FY: I’d like to think that throughout my career, I’ve tried to engage in elevating or allowing for a bigger conversation on the food safety and food system issues of our day. They’re so incredibly important to talk about. But the reality is, when you’re working for organizations, whether in the public or private sector, you’re limited in what you can say. My goal is to try to advance food safety, challenge conventional thinking and maybe cause people to rethink what they’re doing. I want to help create more thinkers and more leaders.

If you can present something that allows people to think differently or to see something from a new angle, I find that those are the types of messages, at least from what I’m putting out there, that people interact with. I’m perfectly comfortable in my own skin to put something out there that challenges the status quo or current paradigm. I intentionally try not to be too controversial, but I don’t mind being professionally provocative.

QA: What are the biggest lessons learned from each step in your career so far?

FY: Early on when I was transitioning from Disney to Walmart, one of my mentors — a retired Disney executive by the name of Lee Cockerell — said something that just stuck with me my entire career. He said, “You’re going to teach the folks at Walmart some things, but you’re going to learn more than you teach them.” As I look back over my career, just being humble, I learned more from each one of those organizations than I ever taught them.

Disney was fantastic. That’s where I got my business degree. The company was committed to very high performance standards. They didn’t want to just do things well. They wanted to be great at everything they did. I learned the importance of setting very high expectations. I learned the importance of details. Anyone who has been to a Disney park or resort has experienced how detail-oriented they are. And much of what I know about human behavior and culture I learned at Disney.

Walmart was a much different company. It was much larger. Disney had 200,000 cast members (employees). Walmart had 2.2 million associates (employees). There, I learned that what’s complex doesn’t get done consistently. And so rather than an overreliance on culture and human execution, we really had an emphasis on trying to design things in a simple manner, so you eliminate the need for people to have to make the right choices at the right time. For example, we took a 16-step rotisserie chicken preparation process and distilled it down to six steps. With scale, you really have to simplify.

At FDA, there are a lot of stakeholder groups you have to manage, such as political leaders, regulated industries, consumer groups, scientific associations and trade associations, that in the private sector you don’t have to spend as much time on. That was a really good takeaway, and I wish the private sector could do more of it — just pause and engage a broader group of stakeholders on how to solve problems. An interdependent food system requires greater collaboration.

Yiannas presenting at the Aquatiq Food Forum in Oslo, Norway, in September 2024.

Courtesy of Frank Yiannas

QA: Was leaving FDA a tough decision? Is there anything you miss?

FY: It was an extremely difficult decision. Especially being someone who is not a short-termer at an organization. I wrestled with it because I loved serving the American people. I had six different bosses between permanent or acting commissioners. It was a tough time with the pandemic, and it was a bit of a revolving door at the top of the FDA. It didn’t trouble me, but I don’t think it was good for the agency long term. I respected each one of them and they were my bosses, but I always felt my real boss was the American consumer. It was also tough because I really, really admire the men and women working at FDA. There are some great people there. They don’t get enough credit. They don’t get enough pay. They’re true public servants and heroes.

I felt like we accomplished a lot. I felt like we advanced food safety modernization. During my tenure, we settled a lawsuit from consumer groups that had sued the FDA for not writing the Food Traceability Rule, which was always part of FSMA when it was passed in 2011. We managed to issue a proposed rule, called three public meetings and issued a final rule. And that’s a pretty big lift in the midst of a pandemic. We also managed to put to rest the original agricultural water standard and proposed a new one that is now finalized. Those two rules will be game changers for food safety.

QA: The pandemic was difficult for people serving in public health. What was it like being at FDA at the time?

FY: I got dealt an interesting set of cards with the pandemic. People say, “Frank, you were so unlucky.” Not to spin, but it was a privilege to be there during that testing and trying time because I felt like my private sector experience and understanding of supply chains was useful within the agency during the pandemic. My sense is that if the pandemic wouldn’t have happened, there might have been a longer tenure for me there. I’ve never worked so hard in my entire life, and I don’t mind working hard, but it led to the need for a break. I’ve got a very strong work ethic from my parents, who were immigrants that came to the United States committed to building a better life.

But I’ve also learned to never say never. I feel I’m still young enough that if ever given the opportunity again, I could wind up back in public service.

QA: As part of your push for modernization, you have not been afraid of using burgeoning technology, such as distributed ledger or blockchain, to find better ways to do things. Have you always been passionate about technology?

FY: My mother was very artistic and creative, and that was instilled early in my life. I learned at home to always look for how you can create a better way. I describe it as constructive criticism. It was part of my DNA. Disney just amplified that desire in me. Disney constantly asks, “How can we make things better?” We launched one of the first handheld food auditing systems at Disney before Y2K, 25 years ago. I’m working with companies today that are still working on paper.

One of the things I’m really bullish on is IoT, the Internet of Things. Imagine the day when the food facility that you regulate or the food you make can talk to you — similar to the way my automobile talks to me. “It’s time to change my oil, Frank.” I don’t think this is too “blue sky” to think this way.

I believe we’ll look back in 10 or 15 years and be shocked at how we were managing food safety.

QA: You teach a food safety culture class at Michigan State University and interact with a lot of FSQA professionals who are just getting into the industry. What advice do you give them?

FY: Be selective in who you work for. Recent graduates are hungry to land a job and people have to make a living, but if you can, don’t take the very first offer. Those formative years early in your career are going to shape the professional you’re going to be. Carefully selecting an organization that you’re going to learn from, especially the types of people you learn from, will influence your life and career tremendously.

Also, be committed to continual learning. I don’t say that flippantly. I’ve learned more post-school than I did at school. Be an avid reader. There have been years where I’ve read 52 books a year, and it tremendously influenced how I thought about problem solving.

The last thing I’d focus on is the importance of networking. The reality is, food safety is a pretty diverse profession, and you’re never going to know everything that you need to know. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve reached out to people I didn’t know, and they gave me such wise advice.

Yiannas at the North American Food Safety & Quality conference in Austin, Texas, in September 2024.

 QA: Why did you join the Boar’s Head food safety advisory council?

FY: There’s a lot of frustration and disappointment in the outbreak. We’ve seen 10 deaths very tragically related to Listeria monocytogenes and 60-plus illnesses. I’ve been taken aback a bit by the question of why would I join as a strategic adviser.

I had very thorough conversations with them, and they’ve expressed regret and asked me if I would be willing to serve as an advisor to understand what happened, how did it happen and why. I’m not serving as a defense witness for the organization. I’m trying to find out what happened and help them put preventive plans in place. For me to say no, I felt it would be the equivalent of food safety malpractice.

In time, we’ll finalize an investigation report, start giving recommendations, be as transparent as we can and ask the company what are the proactive things they’re going to do to ensure it never happens again?

QA: What are some food safety conversations that we are not having right now that we should be?

FY: There are a lot of difficult conversations that we should be having. In fact, I think it’s time to rethink many things about food safety. We should be asking, “With everything we’ve done in the past 30 years — is it working? Are we truly bending the curve of foodborne illness?” Part of that answer is no. We’re not making the types of reductions that we want to see in recent years. We’ve made progress and won battles. But foodborne illness incidence rates over the past two decades have been fairly flat.

We should also be asking how successful the Food Safety Modernization Act has been. Granted, while I came from FDA and am a big believer in FSMA, has it achieved its intended targets? Another conversation is what’s the role of HACCP? We’ve based our entire risk management framework on the HACCP model. There aren’t too many professions that use the same risk management model for 50 years. There’s a really strong emphasis on the hazards and not enough on the risks. The lack of risk identification and effective engineering controls is resulting in us seeing outbreak after outbreak.

QA: On the flip side, what gives you hope for the future of food safety?

FY: I am so inspired by the next generation of food safety professionals that I see at MSU and meetings and conferences. It’s different than when we came in. They have the benefit of accumulating all of this vast knowledge that we’ve uncovered in the last 30 years. They’re already at the 50-yard line. My optimism is really based on what I’ve seen in the way they’re thinking, the way they’re challenging the status quo, the way they’re challenging previous scientific paradigms and assumptions. I’m counting on them.